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Interviews by an Optimist # 53 - Christian Petersen
Christian T. Petersen is the C.E.O. of Fantasy Flight Games, a U.S company that produces board, card, and role-playing games for the world-wide hobby games market. In addition to his role as CEO, Christian designs many of FFG's games, of which the most notable recent designs have been the TWILIGHT IMPERIUM and A GAME OF THRONES board games. He has also co-designed many bestselling titles with other designers, including the A GAME OF THRONES CCG (with Eric Lang), DISKWARS (with Tom Jolly) and many others. Christian has been an avid player of hobby games for most of his life. Since receiving his first copy of DUNGEONS & DRAGONS in December 1983, his gaming interests have covered all major areas of the hobby games industry, including role-playing, miniatures games, collectible card games, and a special love of board games. Christian was born in Washington D.C., U.S.A, but spent most of his childhood and young adult years in the country of Denmark, living first in Espergaerde and later in Rungsted, both towns north of Copenhagen on the Zealand Isle. In 1988 he started his first game company, Pegasus Game Import, which exclusively imported board-games from AVALON HILL into Scandinavia. In 1990 he founded the successful Danish game convention GAMES WEEKEND. Both of these business efforts were later abandoned after he left Denmark for college in the USA. After graduating with a B.A. in Economics from St. Olaf College in Northfield, MN, in 1995, he founded Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. After a brief initial period of publishing European comic books and building a distribution business, he released his first game "Twilight Imperium". Doing business as "Fantasy Flight Games" the company moved to Roseville, Minnesota in 1997. Today, FFG has grown into one of the largest publishers in the hobby games industry. Christian is currently working on the design for the WORLD OF WARCRAFT board game and has started preliminary design on the A STORM OF SWORDS expansion for the A GAME OF THRONES board game. Tom Vasel: I know that in the rant section of your website, www.fantasyflightgames.com, you've given the history of how you designed Twilight Imperium 3. Why is it, you suppose, that TI3 is the only space/empire game on the market? Is it too difficult of a genre to design? Christian Petersen: I don't know why TI is the only one of its kind at the moment. There have been a few others, such as TSR's "Buck Rogers", AH's "Stellar Conquest", but somehow we have been lucky, and TI has become something special. It is difficult to evaluate the genre in a simple way, as it – thematically speaking -- is a very wide one that appeals to people in many different ways. Sci-Fi can range from the epic space opera style of STAR WARS, to the technical universe of Honor Harrington and Asimov’s stories, the exploration tech/character drama of STAR TREK, or the pseudo-medieval politics and religious epic that is DUNE. Ultimately what has caused TI to succeed, in my opinion, has been its mix of politics, its space opera theme blended and the developed (for a board game anyway) story, all mixed with its potential for conflict. Not really a war-game by design, TI is more of a game that speaks to player immersion (board game "role playing" if you will) than more traditional direct-conflict games. My inspirations for TI were games like JUNTA, WARRIOR KNIGHTS, and -- of course, Game Master games such as AXIS AND ALLIES. Surprisingly enough, I did not derive any inspiration from MASTERS OF ORION or SETTLES OF CATAN, something that is often assumed by players. Mostly, of course, TI was made because it was a game that I wanted to play, and there was nothing like it on the market in 1996. Tom Vasel: Twilight Imperium 3 was released in probably the largest box for a game that I've seen in years. And now, looking at your upcoming lineup, I see that two more games will be released in these huge boxes. Aren't there some kind of logistical problems with using such gigantic boxes? They certainly clash with your Silver Line boxes! Christian Petersen: I think it was Teddy Roosevelt who said "it is not the size of the dog in the fight, it is the size of the fight in the dog". There is a lot of fight inside the TI box, and it needed the larger size (unlike brave little dogs) to hold it. The origin of the TI box size (called "epic size" or "widescreen size" at FFG) can really be traced to that sheer need for real estate. We needed a box that would hold the amount of material that we wanted to put in the game. To help retailers, the footprint of the box is about the same size as two "square" games (about 12 x 12) side by side (a size used by many publishers such as FFG, KOMOS, DOW, MAYFAIR, etc). In this way, we knew that it would fit (height-wise, at least) on most retail shelves. Some of our distributors did make a little noise about the vast size, as they needed to buy new master cartons to fit the game -- a problem that I am sure many online and mail-order retailers also faced. Since we recently announced that we will be doing two other "epic" board games in this format this year (the dungeon-crawl DESCENT: JOURNEYS IN THE DARK, and the blistering WORLD OF WARCRAFT, which I am currently working on) I think that these partners are now mostly fine with adapting to the new shipping infrastructure needed for games this size. The success of TI has not hurt either, of course. About 8 weeks after its release we reached the number of TI sales that we had forecasted for the year. It has been fun! The whole principle behind the Silver Line is dramatically different, of course. I am glad that you say they clash, since the two game types (epic size and silver line) really serve two different gaming product needs and price points. Tom Vasel: Just recently I played GolfMania, designed by you. There's a noticeable difference in the mechanics of it and TI3. I know that they're not really comparable, but it is interesting to see who you progressed as a designer. Is FFG still producing extremely light games such as GolfMania, or has the company as a whole moved on? Christian Petersen: Golfmania was an early attempt of mine to create a light and fun game. I think it was FFG’s the third game release, published sometime in the winter of 1997. It does not follow any of the design principles that I work with today, such as I have tried to apply to TI3 and the A Game of Thrones board games. Golfmania is more in the school of 'wacky and random' fun, -- a type of game that many people enjoy, but that today's board-game elite frowns upon. FFG still produces games in all the genres we feel capable of making a good game in. Many people do not realize that we produce a ton of cool role playing games and collectible card games, as well as the board and card games. Personally I think that I am better at designing the really "big games" and all the projects on my near horizon are big designs -- like the huge WORLD OF WARCRAFT adventure game that I am currently sweating over . Last year we produced Knizia's "Loco", which is doing well for us, and we will produce another game in that line (which will retail for less than $7) with the "Hollywood Card Game" by Bruno Faidutti and Micheal Schacht this summer. It is the plan to produce one game in this format every year. If you mean by "light" -- games that are silly and humorous in theme and concept, I don't see us making any significant future effort here. Companies like Steve Jackson games and James Ernest Games are much better at understanding this category, and that customer, than FFG. Tom Vasel: What can you tell us about World of Warcraft? How can you take a MMORPG and translate it to a board game? Christian Petersen: Well, we certainly cannot replicate an MMORPG in a boardgame, the online WOW game does a wonderful job that needs no reproduction . What we can do, is try to provide the role-playing experiences found in Azeroth (the world of WOW) to the game-board. We can try to provide the players with the experience of playing your WOW characters in a different, tactile, and more social setting. Trying to simulate the online game directly is not a good idea -- what we're trying to accomplish is to provide the same type of enjoyment and sense of immersion that you may experience with the MMORPG (and about 1.4 million people currently are playing WOW online) but in a different format – the board game format. In the WOW boardgame, you will be able to bring a character from low level all the way to the end-game in one sitting, you will get to interact with gorgeous components (including tons of plastic hero characters, and tons of plastic WOW creatures), all through a neat questing, combat, and skill/talent system that I have been working on during the last 2-3 months. In these types of games, the trick is to provide players with some level of player interaction, and we think we have accomplished that. When you are working with large properties such as WOW, the projects can be a lot of fun. The print-run sizes of this type of game allow us to put all sorts of neat plastic components, graphics, and high-quality cardboard in the game that would not be possible in a game with a lower print-run. We strongly believe in the value and experience of the "role playing" board game, and FFG is trying to provide the best possible value here. With Runebound (that has a second edition on the way this summer), Arkham Horror (also coming this summer), Descent: Journey's in the Dark (coming in the fall), and finally the WOW boardgame (before Xmas), I think that it goes to show that we are really excited about this segment of the boardgame market. Tom Vasel: You're not alone - many of us are excited also! It sounds like Descent and WOW are very similar. Are they the same game with a different theme? Christian Petersen: WOW and Descent: Journey's in the Dark are really
very different beasts. Descent: Journey's in the Dark is an elaborately
produced dungeon-crawl designed by our very own Kevin Wilson. You take the
role of a character from the RUNEBOUND universe and explore underground
tunnels and caverns. The Heroes gain levels and cool powers, but the game
is very tactical and involves one player (like DOOM) playing the
"Overlord" trying to kick the daring adventures out of his dungeons and
evil plans. Descent: JITD comes with tons of interchangeable
rooms/corridors/treasures, etc. In WOW, on the other hand, players
are racing on a fixed board of Lordearon to gain in Both WOW and Descent will feature a huge host of cool plastic heroes and monsters, of course. Tom Vasel: I see that Runebound, the second edition, and a "deluxe" edition of Lord of the Rings: Confrontation are being released. Can you tell us about the changes to both of those games, and why would a current owner of LOTR: Confrontation (myself included) want the new game? Christian Petersen: OK, let’s start with Runebound. We were thrilled
with Runebound when it was Runebound’s success took FFG by surprise. After its June 2004 release,
it sold far faster than we had anticipated, and even though we had taken a
large stake in the inventory of the game (what I thought would be a 2 year
supply), we still sold out before the Xmas season even had begun in 2004.
The incredible interest in RUNEBOUND and its small card-expansion "Shadows
of Margath" were so encouraging, in fact, that it became my opinion that
this product was something that FFG should really support in a major way.
As the game was being played weekly by thousands of people, we tried to
take in So, the new edition of Runebound will feature a slightly reworked system (instead of rolling a d20, for example, players now roll and add two d10s). We have rearranged the board a bit, included some of "Advanced Rules Options" that are found on FFG's Runebound site, and -- of course -- we have included 12 cool plastic figures for the Heroes, something that was not possible in the first printing. We have this really exciting support program for Runebound planned; it has been delayed while we have been working with getting the new edition of Runebound to be as great as possible, but the first big expansion "Island of Dread" as well as a number of smaller expansions (similar to Shadows of Margath) will start rolling out late this summer around Gen-Con time. To service any existing customers of Runebound who would want the 2nd edition, FFG will be offering an upgrade program on our web-site. Here an owner of Runebound 1st edition, will be able to receive an upgrade and a very reasonable price (the details of the program are currently being worked on). It will involve sending a form, along with one of the physical cards from the 1st edition, to the FFG offices via the mail. On to THE CONFRONTATION. I have personally been working with Eric Lang for quite a while on the "Deluxe Edition" of Reiner Knizia's marvelous "Lord of the Rings: The Confrontation" board game. As I write this, Reiner himself is currently reviewing our work. The Deluxe confrontation will accomplish three major things: 1) It provides the ability to play the original game with wonderful upgraded components. This includes a larger game-board, larger cards (the "Tarot format" card size that you will find in BLUE MOON for instance), and wonderful new artwork for the Characters and Cards. The plastic stands for the characters will be beautifully sculpted pieces that are more than twice as large as the plastic stands provided in the older version of the game. 2) We provide an entirely new "variant" game that introduces 18 new characters (9 Shadow characters against 9 Free People characters). Some of the original characters (like Frodo, Gandalf, and the Witch King) are also present in the variant game, but all their characters abilities are new. Whereas the flavor of the original game is that of the fellowship overcoming overwhelming odds and simulating Frodo's journey to Mordor, the variant game tries to provide a "War Of The Ring" game experience (not related to our game of the same name) so that the flavor of the two game options are entirely different (although victory conditions remain the same between the two). 3) The variant game has not only been tested to provide a balanced game
between the 18 new characters, we have very carefully crafted the new
characters so that players will be able to play a fun "draft" game. As the
Variant characters are printed on reverse side of the cardboard piece
showing the original characters, the draft game involves each side picking
*which side* of their 9 cardboard pieces to bring to the game. The
Frodo I am just so pleased that FFG is able to do this version of THE CONFRONTATION. LORD OF THE RINGS is a deep passion of mine, and ever since playing Reiner's first prototype of this game, it has not only rested among my favorite LOTR games of all time, but also as one of my favorite games, period. I really feel that this game deserves the quality, options, and TLC that we bring to this production. Tom Vasel: What can you tell us about the new expansion for Game of Thrones, the Board Game? I didn't realize there was anything else that could be added... Christian Petersen: Well, the expansion "A Storm of Swords" will do two things 1) It will add a whole other variant game, with a new game-board and a few new rules elements. This new variant will encompass the Battle of the Trident that take place in the books A CLASH OF KINGS and A STORM OF SWORDS. This takes the AGOT system to a more operational level, and includes some really fun new elements -- including the shifting control over certain "neutral" houses. This variant game will be a four player game between Stark, Lannister, Baratheon, and Greyjoy. The map will feature the entire Trident Riverlands, with Kings Landing in the lower right hand side of the board, and the Iron Isles on the upper left hand side. Some of the new mechanics and units from this variant game can be ported over to the main game, and these rules and components create some additional fun options for the original game. Tom Vasel: How well do Fantasy Flight Games do in other countries? Christian Petersen: More than half of our business is international. We have a large network of wonderful partners and customers that really form the foundation of what we're all about. As I grew up with gaming in Denmark, the international games community has always been important to me. Tom Vasel: What is your response to those who are criticize FFG games as having a lack of playtesting? Christian Petersen: Well, of course we play-test our games quite significantly, and we try to improve these efforts all the time, just as we seek to improve everything else that we're doing. I'm going to assume that you are referring to our Board Games, as we also produce a wide variety of RPG's and CCG's as well. This issue tends to come down to a few factors, first of all many of the types of games that we tend to publish are far from the "safe" comfortable zone of games that don't push new boundaries. Many of our board-game are "role playing board" games like ARKHAM HORROR and RUNEBOUND, or "tool box games" like DOOM, that deal with a myriad of components, scenarios, and try to push a player interaction and player immersion in a way that simply does not appeal to a certain group of gamers that hunger for a more clinical play experience. The other issue is one that relates to personal tastes and dislikes versus actual problems with the game. Due to the strong themes and wonderful components that we try to serve, some customers will sometimes come to the game with a different idea of what they personally would like in our games. Sometimes these tastes simply run contrary to what we were trying to accomplish in a game or a string of scenarios, and then misplaced critique on issues such as play-testing or balancing can occur. We try, of course, as a business to make games that appeal to the broadest possible whole. We also try very hard to create variants and other options for our games online that allow the games to be enjoyed by people that have tastes which lie in a slightly different direction. We want everyone to be happy of course. Take TWILIGHT IMPERIUM for example. Some people objected to how I created one of the Strategy Cards. Now, I liked the way that this made the game play in a certain way that sped up the resolution of the game. Some people did not like that form of game, which is very fair, but that does not mean that what we wanted was not tested, of course. As some people wanted a different experience out of that card, I sat down and made a variant game available for them online that caters to this game-taste. In our DOOM board game, a really fun and innovate "shoot 'em up game", the scenarios (like the PC game) were meant to be challenging for the Marine players -- something that many people mistook for lack of testing. Yet, we have added online variants for DOOM, and other scenarios for people that desire a less asymmetrical experience, etc. So, on the whole, these issues are nowhere as significant as some would argue. Some of the critique is relevant, of course, and is noted. We always try to improve everything we do, testing, component quality, graphics, communication, etc. I hope that you can see our efforts of continuous improvement in the years we have been around. Hopefully we can continue this effort, our customers deserve nothing less. Tom Vasel: Your company releases the rules to your games long before the games are actually published. What are the benefits of that? Christian Petersen: Why not? We have the rules available months before the game hits the warehouse. This allows our customers to see the vision behind the game, see the design innovations, and allows them to make decisions regarding their interest-level in the game. We're proud of all the games we do, and putting these rules up on our web-site for all to see is a win-win for all, I think. Tom Vasel: What have you found to be the most effective way of advertising your games, and how do you get "German-style" games into the hands of the American public? Christian Petersen: Wow, big question -- not easy to answer, as nothing
is really that clear when it comes to promotions and advertising in our
small industry. There is actually preciously little advertising that is
proven to work. One of the things that we try to do is get our bi-annual
catalog to as many people as possible, and we include our catalog in most
of our boxed games. I learned that this was a good way of communicating to
gamers, because I used to read these catalogs as a kid in the early 80's
when I opened a new Avalon Hill We do some advertising to the trade (distributors and retailers), but that is more intended to make the industry aware that a new product is coming, as opposed to a brand-building end-user targeted type of advertising. In terms of getting "German Style" games in the public, that is something that Mayfair, Rio Grande, and DOW has excelled at. In many ways, they pave the way in this regard. Most of FFG's releases are not really in the "German Game" category -- we focus more on the fantasy/sci-fi hobby market, and try to create as innovative and as beautiful products that we can. We have some wonderful games, such as INGENIOUS and LOCO that we do constantly try to push into new markets and place in front of new potential gamers. We will also be re-releasing THROUGH THE DESERT in about 5 weeks, which is really one of the all-time classics in the "German Game" category. Tom Vasel: How do you determine the type of game that FFG produces? Do you cater towards games with a "fantasy" theme? Christian Petersen: The process is one-third scientific, one-third gut instinct, and one-third leaning on our core strengths. Many of our publications are supporting releases such a role-playing books for existing lines, CCG expansions, or expansions for board games. The decision process on publishing such support products is obviously very different from the decision making process that relates to publishing new games. I have had a fairly good instinct, helped by many of the smart people within FFG, for what kinds of games and categories would make for attractive products. We are a business, and a huge factor for determining what to publish lies in trying to determine what value can we give to our customers and what our customers want to buy -- whether it be a theme, a genre, a style of design, or something entirely different. I would say that FFG, at its core, tries to cater to the "hobby market gamer" (which is a moving and evolving target), and that this customer's thematic tastes rests primarily within the fantasy, science fiction, and horror genres. That customer will also sometimes have a taste for historical, quasi-historical, or even contemporary and abstract themes – so we try to have a few games in these areas as well. Overall, we strive to be a very differentiated company as it relates to the hobby market, and we're proud to be so. We believe in making good games for all the relevant genres that appeal to the hobby gamer. Tom Vasel: Have any of the games you produced surprised you by doing much better than expected? Christian Petersen: Yes, as a matter of fact many of our latest games
have performed much better than expected. I thought that RUNEBOUND would
be a strong game, but it sold out much faster than anticipated. TWILIGHT
IMPERIUM 3rd Edition broke our 12-month projection in 2 months, The WINGS
OF WAR series, WWI dog-fight card games, have also been received far
better than expected. We're currently on our 4th printing of the "Famous
Aces" release for that line, which is terrific. My own design A GAME OF
THRONES has also been incredibly strong. We're going back to press for a
4th printing of that game as well, and we will be (and have been) printing
international versions of this product. Last fall AGOT was printed in
German, Italian, French, Spanish, Dutch, and Tom Vasel: What recent events started the mass explosion of new titles being produced by FFG? Your upcoming game list is huge! Christian Petersen: Well, FFG has always been a very productive
company. I don't think that the Some of our releases are done in partnership with the wonderful guys at NEXUS (our Italian partner) -- namely MARVEL HEROES (coming this winter), the WINGS OF WAR products, and the really cool new expansion for THE WAR OF THE RING. Although we do all the English language distribution and localization of these games, NEXUS undertakes the vast majority of the development for these. Perhaps the main difference this year, and why your question is phrased the way that it is, is not as much the volume of titles, as how exciting and how much impact these titles have. This is probably the best line-up, in terms of high-profile titles, that FFG has ever had for one year. We will be releasing new versions of the gaming classics ARKHAM HORROR, BRITANNIA, FURY OF DRACULA, and WARRIOR KNIGHTS, as well as new games such as DESCENT: JOURNEY'S IN THE DARK, BEOWULF, and the WORLD OF WARCRAFT board game. Combined with some cool expansions, reprints like THROUGH THE DESERT and Deluxe LORD OF THE RINGS: THE CONFRONTATION, and the NEXUS partnership titles, it just makes for one of the most exciting years FFG has ever had. We have, in fact, already published some great games this year, namely TWILIGHT IMPERIUM 3rd edition and the wonderful INGENIOUS. Tom Vasel: What advice would you give to prospective game designers? Christian Petersen: It's always hard to give advice, and taking advice should always be done with care. Let me take two approaches to this, one as a designer, and one as a publisher. As a publisher, I think that new designers need to know that "ideas" do not sell, but that the execution of those ideas do. Many designers think that a publisher will buy just an idea, or fund an idea. We get many letters and calls asking us to buy concepts or ideas, and that just doesn't fly with any publisher that I know. In order for a publisher -- speaking from FFG's perspective -- to consider a game, the design needs to be completely done and presented in an attractive proto-type with clear rules. Also, designers typically need to fill out some important legal paper work before the game is submitted, otherwise we (publishers) simply cannot look at the prototype, and it will be returned without being looked at. Many designers refuse to sign typical publisher "release forms", as
they are afraid that their game, or ideas from such, could be "stolen" by
the publisher. In fact, many designers want *publishers* to sign release
forms, which is completely unacceptable. This is a common, but unhealthy
paranoia among inventors. Good publishers need good designers, and are not
in the business of stealing ideas. Publishers, however, need to protect
themselves and their established designers. A publisher's worst nightmare
is to be working and applying resources on a new title, but then receive
an unsolicited submission which is similar to what is currently being
worked on. This creates a situation where the publisher may suddenly be
faced with litigation because the submitting designer thinks that his idea
was "stolen", when if fact the similar idea was developed independently
by If a designer is really concerned about an idea being stolen, then that designer should go ahead and self-publish the game (this involves financial risk on the designer, of course). Self-published games are a good way to promote publication to the next level and be picked up by a larger company. You did, after all, place a serious financial commitment on the game yourself, and that is a sign that you really believe in the game and its financial prospects. Self publishing is a double-edged sword, however. If you are successful in selling too many of your own games into the market -- then a degree of market saturation will already have happened for that game, and the larger publisher will not be able to receive those important "new product" sales (which usually make or break the profitability for a product). In this scenario, the designer is suddenly stuck in the business of being a publisher of a successful game (for all the good and the bad that may bring). At the moment, FFG will not even look at outside game submissions from anyone but our established designers. This is mainly because our publication schedule is full for the next two years going forward. Anyway, the lesson here is that too much paranoia in trying to protect your game idea is a sure recipe for publication failure. It is good to be prudent, but in order to get a game published, you need to get it out there and shown to people. Don't be too afraid of anyone stealing your idea. It could happen of course, but remember that execution is the most valuable step of the equation. If you are concerned about the integrity and honesty of a publisher, then ask around -- especially among designers that are already published by the company to whom you wish to submit your game. As a designer, my only advice would be to "simplify and integrate" your design, I have been mostly successful over the last few years when keeping these principles in mind. This is the case whether you design big heavy "fusion-style" games like me, or whether you try to design "German Style" or "Anglo Style" games (British/American). Simplify as much as possible, and you will be surprised at how much theme and game depth a correct simplicity can achieve. By "integrate" I mean to try and interlace your ideas and processes as much as possible -- so that the "engines" of your game seems an interlocked and organic whole. This is high level advice, of course, and different games will require different approaches to these concepts. I consider the fundamental engines of TWILIGHT IMPERIUM 3rd edition to be simplified and organic, but it is still a monster game with a 40+ page rules booklet. A game like INGENIOUS is also a simple game, and with only 2 pages of rules. The word "simple" applies to both games, but in completely different and relative categories of games. Tom Vasel: Thanks for taking the time to do this interview! Do you have any final thoughts for our readers? Christian Petersen: Thank you, Tom, and sorry that it has taken so long to get all the answers to you (this interview was conducted via email over an 8 week period). Thanks also for your significant contributions to the field with your prolific reviews, interviews, and positive attitude. Finally, thanks to everyone that are excited about FFG and our games.
Keep the flame of fun alive, stay positive and excited about this great
field of entertainment! Tom Vasel | |